Comments on: Pledge of Alliegance http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/ Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:23:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Poof at Faux Real Tho! http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-254 Poof at Faux Real Tho! Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:33:37 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-254 [...] On th' other hand, this post does particularly well, and a bottle of rum! [...] [...] On th’ other hand, this post does particularly well, and a bottle of rum! [...]

]]> By: Anne http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-253 Anne Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:25:00 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-253 The talk like a pirate plugin does this post well. The talk like a pirate plugin does this post well.

]]> By: Kaethe http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-250 Kaethe Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:16:17 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-250 Ah, that is so good to know. This week my daughter's class is learning about citizenship, so I wrote a little note to the teacher asking if that included civil disobedience and the history of the Pledge. Just so I know what I have to work on at home. Ah, that is so good to know. This week my daughter’s class is learning about citizenship, so I wrote a little note to the teacher asking if that included civil disobedience and the history of the Pledge.

Just so I know what I have to work on at home.

]]> By: Siobhan Cooke http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-221 Siobhan Cooke Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:15:46 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-221 Hi there, Just in case you don't know - all this was already decided in 1943! At the time, West Virginia passed a law requiring teachers and students to say the pledge (this was actually before the "under God" section was added in 1954), and suit was brought by teachers, parents, the Red Cross, Boy and Girl Scouts, a Jehovah's Witnesses, and various others on First Amendment grounds. The US Supreme court held that the law was unconstitutional with the memorable phrase: "To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds..." Interestingly, some of the objection to a mandatory recitation of the pledge was that it bore an eerie resemblance to when was going on over in Germany at the time. Check out West Virginia Board of Education vs. Barnette: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=319&invol=624#Scene_1 There have been more recent cases that have upheld the constitutionality of voluntarily saying the pledge, but no matter what no one in a public school can MAKE a child say the pledge. Good luck! Hi there,

Just in case you don’t know - all this was already decided in 1943! At the time, West Virginia passed a law requiring teachers and students to say the pledge (this was actually before the “under God” section was added in 1954), and suit was brought by teachers, parents, the Red Cross, Boy and Girl Scouts, a Jehovah’s Witnesses, and various others on First Amendment grounds. The US Supreme court held that the law was unconstitutional with the memorable phrase: “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds…”

Interestingly, some of the objection to a mandatory recitation of the pledge was that it bore an eerie resemblance to when was going on over in Germany at the time.

Check out West Virginia Board of Education vs. Barnette:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=319&invol=624#Scene_1

There have been more recent cases that have upheld the constitutionality of voluntarily saying the pledge, but no matter what no one in a public school can MAKE a child say the pledge.

Good luck!

]]> By: Magnus Malmborn http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-150 Magnus Malmborn Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:55:15 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-150 The pledge is one of the things I don't get about the USA. Or maybe I do understand; It's only that in order to make sense you have to go very far from the official view about "the land of the free" etc. Is there actually people in the USA who feel <i>pride</i> about schoolchildren standing straight, hand on heart, while reciting the pledge? When I hear of it my thought fill with a different country of another time; small boys in khaki shirts in front of a flag in red, white and black. About the "under God" part: James Randi has written that when he was to become citizen he objected to have to pledge under God, and the official told him he could just drop that line. The pledge is one of the things I don’t get about the USA. Or maybe I do understand; It’s only that in order to make sense you have to go very far from the official view about “the land of the free” etc.

Is there actually people in the USA who feel pride about schoolchildren standing straight, hand on heart, while reciting the pledge? When I hear of it my thought fill with a different country of another time; small boys in khaki shirts in front of a flag in red, white and black.

About the “under God” part: James Randi has written that when he was to become citizen he objected to have to pledge under God, and the official told him he could just drop that line.

]]> By: Annie http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-149 Annie Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:50:52 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-149 At one of our local schools they started using a recorded voice saying the Pledge. Now, they have the students say it when they give the morning announcements. At this particular school, they have students from many different countries. We can imagine the uncomfortableness. What a way to start the morning! This whole thing is bullshit. If our representatives REALLY want students to learn about the US and "victims of terrorism", they should look into revamping the social studies curriculum and perhaps start including Zinn's _A People's History of the United States_. He's even come out with an educator's edition to help make it easier! Of course, teaching Zinn might prove to bring in too much critical thinking for those in power to handle. <a href="http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm" title="Oh, that's what it is!" rel="nofollow">What's the role of public education again?</a> At one of our local schools they started using a recorded voice saying the Pledge. Now, they have the students say it when they give the morning announcements. At this particular school, they have students from many different countries. We can imagine the uncomfortableness. What a way to start the morning!

This whole thing is bullshit.

If our representatives REALLY want students to learn about the US and “victims of terrorism”, they should look into revamping the social studies curriculum and perhaps start including Zinn’s _A People’s History of the United States_. He’s even come out with an educator’s edition to help make it easier!

Of course, teaching Zinn might prove to bring in too much critical thinking for those in power to handle.

What’s the role of public education again?

]]> By: Kaethe http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-145 Kaethe Thu, 14 Sep 2006 02:19:32 +0000 http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/09/14/pledge-of-alliegance/#comment-145 NC has added the pledge requirement. Before I was indifferent, but this is really starting to get on my last nerve. NC has added the pledge requirement. Before I was indifferent, but this is really starting to get on my last nerve.

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